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	<title>Comments for Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
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		<title>Comment on The Iliad: Pacifism in Ancient Greece by TPH</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/2010/2-articles/a-history/the-iliad-pacifism-in-ancient-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>TPH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?p=186#comment-144</guid>
		<description>This is a well written article. In support of your contention I would bring up two other things. First, for all the petulance Achilles demonstrates early in The Iliad, when Agamemnon&#039;s party finally shows up to give him what he originally wanted, to try to get him back into the fight, he turns it down. He says he has reconsidered and has decided to sail home and lead a long, peaceful life rather than stay and die for glory. He lists the various prizes and treasures that can be won in war, but then says they are all worthless because they can&#039;t buy back a man&#039;s last breath once he has expelled it. And there is no reason to doubt him, or think he is holding out for a better offer. Unfortunately, fate conspires to create a situation where he will lose control of his emotions due to the death of his close friend before he can sail away, and his desire for revenge leads to his death. But when he was thinking rationally, he made the right decision.

The second thing is the appearance Achilles makes in The Odyssey, where his shade appears and tells Odysseus, point blank, &quot;I&#039;d rather be the slave of a poor farmer, and be alive on the Earth, than be the most honored warrior amongst the dead.&quot; Or words to that effect. When Achilles has his emotions under control he is actually the wisest character in Homer&#039;s works.

Now, he doesn&#039;t become a total pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. He takes pride in the news that his son has made a name for himself as a warrior, and wishes he could get back up to the Earth to help his father fight off his enemies. But, he has at least matured some, considering he starts off in love with war for it&#039;s own sake.

There is simply no way to jibe these statements, made by the hero of these stories, with the modern stereotypes of Homer&#039;s audience. If they were truly in love with war and all things martial, not only would they not pay poets to recite Homer&#039;s works, with these pro-peace themes, they certainly wouldn&#039;t sit through the dozens and dozens of hours it takes to recite these works. In fact, if the situation had been like that, it&#039;s unlikely the poems would survive in their current form, as these themes would have been edited out by poets, as it would probably be very dangerous to point out to a &#039;death before dishonor&#039; type that his honor is worthless and that he would be better off as another man&#039;s slave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a well written article. In support of your contention I would bring up two other things. First, for all the petulance Achilles demonstrates early in The Iliad, when Agamemnon&#8217;s party finally shows up to give him what he originally wanted, to try to get him back into the fight, he turns it down. He says he has reconsidered and has decided to sail home and lead a long, peaceful life rather than stay and die for glory. He lists the various prizes and treasures that can be won in war, but then says they are all worthless because they can&#8217;t buy back a man&#8217;s last breath once he has expelled it. And there is no reason to doubt him, or think he is holding out for a better offer. Unfortunately, fate conspires to create a situation where he will lose control of his emotions due to the death of his close friend before he can sail away, and his desire for revenge leads to his death. But when he was thinking rationally, he made the right decision.</p>
<p>The second thing is the appearance Achilles makes in The Odyssey, where his shade appears and tells Odysseus, point blank, &#8220;I&#8217;d rather be the slave of a poor farmer, and be alive on the Earth, than be the most honored warrior amongst the dead.&#8221; Or words to that effect. When Achilles has his emotions under control he is actually the wisest character in Homer&#8217;s works.</p>
<p>Now, he doesn&#8217;t become a total pacifist by any stretch of the imagination. He takes pride in the news that his son has made a name for himself as a warrior, and wishes he could get back up to the Earth to help his father fight off his enemies. But, he has at least matured some, considering he starts off in love with war for it&#8217;s own sake.</p>
<p>There is simply no way to jibe these statements, made by the hero of these stories, with the modern stereotypes of Homer&#8217;s audience. If they were truly in love with war and all things martial, not only would they not pay poets to recite Homer&#8217;s works, with these pro-peace themes, they certainly wouldn&#8217;t sit through the dozens and dozens of hours it takes to recite these works. In fact, if the situation had been like that, it&#8217;s unlikely the poems would survive in their current form, as these themes would have been edited out by poets, as it would probably be very dangerous to point out to a &#8216;death before dishonor&#8217; type that his honor is worthless and that he would be better off as another man&#8217;s slave.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Peace in Ritual and Daily Life by An Interview with Brynneth &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/2010/3-practices/b-group-work/peace-in-ritual-and-daily-life/comment-page-1/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>An Interview with Brynneth &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 05:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?p=229#comment-111</guid>
		<description>[...] and inform creating a culture shift. For more thoughts from Brynneth, check out her article &#8220;Peace in Ritual and Daily Life&#8220;.   Read more from Interviews        Click here to cancel [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and inform creating a culture shift. For more thoughts from Brynneth, check out her article &#8220;Peace in Ritual and Daily Life&#8220;.   Read more from Interviews        Click here to cancel [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Iliad: Pacifism in Ancient Greece by likesun</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/2010/2-articles/a-history/the-iliad-pacifism-in-ancient-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>likesun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 00:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?p=186#comment-18</guid>
		<description>I would like to exchange links with your site paganpacifism.com
Is this possible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to exchange links with your site paganpacifism.com<br />
Is this possible?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by The Wild Hunt &#187; Pagan Community Notes: Bonewits&#8217; Papers, Pacificism, Theology, and more!</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wild Hunt &#187; Pagan Community Notes: Bonewits&#8217; Papers, Pacificism, Theology, and more!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 11:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-17</guid>
		<description>[...] Pacifists Speak: A month ago I announced a new initiative, the Voices of Pagan Pacifism project, and now their first issue of interviews, essays and articles has been released. &#8220;Part [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pacifists Speak: A month ago I announced a new initiative, the Voices of Pagan Pacifism project, and now their first issue of interviews, essays and articles has been released. &#8220;Part [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by Welcome: A Pre-Launch Announcement &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Welcome: A Pre-Launch Announcement &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-14</guid>
		<description>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by The Wild Hunt &#187; Pagan Community Notes: Patrick McCollum, World of Witches Museum, Voices of Pagan Pacifism, SJ Tucker, and Joe Credit</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wild Hunt &#187; Pagan Community Notes: Patrick McCollum, World of Witches Museum, Voices of Pagan Pacifism, SJ Tucker, and Joe Credit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 11:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-13</guid>
		<description>[...] of Pagan Pacifism: A new initiative from Alison Shaffer, the Voices of Pagan Pacifism project, is working to spotlight voices of pacifism and peace-making from within the Pagan community. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Pagan Pacifism: A new initiative from Alison Shaffer, the Voices of Pagan Pacifism project, is working to spotlight voices of pacifism and peace-making from within the Pagan community. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by Biographies: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Biographies: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-12</guid>
		<description>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by Profane Peace-Making: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Profane Peace-Making: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-10</guid>
		<description>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by Magic of Peace: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Magic of Peace: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-9</guid>
		<description>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Submission Guidelines by Spirit of Peace: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</title>
		<link>http://paganpacifism.com/submissions/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Spirit of Peace: An Introduction &#124; Voices of Pagan Pacifism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paganpacifism.com/?page_id=10#comment-8</guid>
		<description>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Submission Guidelines [...]</p>
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